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GJS's avatar

I'm curious if increased "classroom complexity" (e.g., growing numbers of ESL students, students with learning or behavioural challenges) is simply overwhelming the added headcount (at least in Ontario). My experience via my daughters (ages 18 and 22) is that a handful of students in each class consume all the available oxygen.

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Robert Chown's avatar

Thanks for the interesting article. One question; wouldn't the ESI have many influences outside of education, such as the health of the local economy?

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David Clinton's avatar

Absolutely. This isn't hard science. But I still think it's worthwhile to track real-world outcomes where it's reasonable to imagine that significant statistical markers are at least *partially* impacted by macro trends.

I'm actually going to address the lack of serious research on educational outcomes in tomorrow's post.

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Ken Schultz's avatar

Your negative correlation suggests - suggests! - that the cry by the various teachers' unions for lower class sizes and more teachers in the classrooms is entirely backwards.

Of course, my point above is entirely tongue in cheek but it does make for an interesting perspective. What would be truly fascinating to see - but it would never see the light of day - is if a provincial Ministry of Education were to conduct a similar study but, given their access to real life data, better information. Such a study would, of necessity never see the light of day because it would immediately become fodder for those who had a political point to make or attack. Nevertheless, it would be useful and actually, if one is being honest, something that an Education Ministry SHOULD do, if only to guide them in their own decisions. Best of all, have the government approach the union and jointly design the study and then hire some non-local expert known for neutrality. You know, like David Clinton.

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John Chittick's avatar

During the early 80s, I read the Vancouver Sun columns of Les Bewley, a retired and somewhat controversial provincial court judge whose most memorable quip to me was that "Humanities faculties could be replaced with Library cards". In one series of articles he compared the efficacy of one room rural school houses of the 1920s with the (1980s) present. He compared the exam questions of the grade ten graduation level of the one room schools with the modern equivalent and determined them to at equivalent to the first year undergraduate level in basic disciplines. To me , it underscored the value of a good teacher and likely, motivated students with older kids assisting younger ones in a congenial but disciplined atmosphere devoid of administration.

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